The Best Men Podcast

Episode 12: Burnout: The Silent Epidemic

• Michael and Sameer • Season 2 • Episode 2

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Burnout has reached epidemic proportions among men, yet most don't recognise it happening until they're completely depleted. Did you know one in three men can't identify their own burnout symptoms, and nearly all say "I'm fine" right before they crash?

In this week's conversation, we unpack the crucial differences between everyday stress and genuine burnout. While stress is our natural "the lion is coming, I need to run" response, burnout happens when that metaphorical lion has been in your room for a year with no escape! Through personal stories and practical advice, we break down the difference between normal stress and burnout while offering strategies to prevent reaching your breaking point:

  • Understanding the difference between stress (normal, short-term) and burnout (long-term exhaustion from extreme pressure)
  • Recognizing the three types of burnout symptoms: physical (tiredness, headaches), emotional (feeling isolated, withdrawn), and behavioral (being snappy, demotivated)
  • How poor workplace management and unreasonable expectations contribute significantly to burnout
  • Starting your day with the "3 Ms" – movement, mindfulness, and mindset – to build momentum and resilience
  • Creating small pockets of personal time throughout your day as "pressure release valves"
  • Finding activities that genuinely recharge you rather than following generic advice about relaxation  

The physical, emotional, and behavioural symptoms of burnout often disguise themselves as separate issues, making them easy to dismiss, but for men between 35-45, this is especially relevant, as 96% reportedly experience burnout during these demanding years.

Whether you're feeling the weight of burnout yourself or concerned about someone close to you, we hope this episode offers both validation and some helpful practices to get you back to feeling your best! 

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Michael:

Welcome to this week's episode of the Best Men Podcast. I'm Michael and I'm Sameer, and if you found us, it means you're looking forward to sitting back and enjoying 30 minutes of two best friends taking the piss out of each other, debating life's big questions whilst ultimately learning how to become better men.

Sameer:

So sit back and enjoy this week's episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah, hello, hello, how's it going, how's it going.

Michael:

I think we've done it. I think we've done it, Sameer, we finally cracked it.

Sameer:

I um yeah it's good.

Michael:

Welcome to the pod, welcome to the Best man Podcast with me Michael and me Sameer. Another week, another pod, another week another pod.

Sameer:

Can I say it's episode two. You can say it's episode two. Yeah, episode two, season two, two for two.

Michael:

Episode two episode 2 how you been. Very good. It's been an eventful week for me. Tell me why I went to the gym again? No way, yeah, I am officially a gymmer that's what they call it a gymmer gymmer your Jiminy Cricket. Jiminy.

Sameer:

Cricket, yeah, yeah, I've been to the gym. How, whose gym have you been? Going?

Michael:

to Glenn's gym shout out to Glenn. Shout out to Glenn.

Sameer:

Glenn's gym, he's had me back now is how many members are there of Glenn's gym?

Michael:

I mean, I don't want to really, you know, convey that, but there's at least two of us and Glenn, so that's three of us together there's another person.

Sameer:

Yeah, I didn't realise. I literally thought it was you and Glenn going at it. No, no, no, no, no.

Michael:

There's three of us, three men, three men in a shed.

Sameer:

Three men in a shed. Tell me, what did you do in the gym this week?

Michael:

I did some lunges. Nice With weights or just no, I couldn't do with weights. I fell down without weights. Okay.

Sameer:

Is it? Normal to do a lunge and fall down, not if you're doing them right. Are you supposed to touch the ground with your knee? Uh, I think you are. You're meant to lunge forward, graze the ground with your knee, not collapse and then get back to your feet.

Michael:

Yeah, so I would lunge, fall over, get back again. So it's just kind of me repeatedly falling over and rolling on the floor right for a break now.

Sameer:

When you finish the lunges, were your thighs burning uh no well, you weren't lunging properly my legs were burning my calves okay, yeah, okay, fine, yes we did some lunges.

Michael:

We did some attack bike.

Sameer:

You heard of attack bike which I think you told me about this is that's the one where it blows air in your face. It's a horrible machine okay, fine good.

Michael:

Lots of weights do, lots of, lots of lots of chest yeah, well, you do like it dips, dips. Yeah, yeah, I'll do the dips. Okay, tried. He has to give me a special elastic band to help me.

Sameer:

Right? Do you think in a few months time, if you keep going, I'm going to look at you one day and I was just going to look at you, like Chris Hemsworth sitting next to me, michael Hems.

Michael:

The problem is this week I had a big pizza, I had ice cream, I had donut from.

Sameer:

With.

Michael:

Glenn no, he didn't know about that. Don't tell Glenn, Okay.

Sameer:

Glenn, if you're listening, Michael did not eat pizza or ice cream.

Michael:

But you know every week. I mean, what's worrying me is he makes me add more weight every week.

Sameer:

Onto your body? No, no, because that's the opposite of the Glenn's not doing a good job if you're gaining weight.

Michael:

No, this Every week is like okay, well, look, you can't get, you can't do 5kg weights, that's for women.

Sameer:

You've got to push yourself harder. Come on yeah.

Michael:

It's like move up to 7.5. The next week, move up to 10.

Sameer:

I'm like right. So it's getting to the point where now are you questioning?

Michael:

glenn's methods. I'm not questioning glenn's methods, glenn. I'm questioning my life choices. And also, he's 10 years older than me, is he? Yeah, is he?

Sameer:

is he sort of like quite ripped, oh mate yeah, really, you know what's worrying, why?

Michael:

why don't?

Sameer:

I ever get invited to these sessions. I don't know, have you got gym at home? I haven't gone to glenn at home. Oh well, I need a glenn, the gym is not the problem.

Michael:

When.

Sameer:

I go gym, I don't do nothing. I need a Glenn to push me.

Michael:

You know what's funny? I first started and I couldn't have any weight at all. So what did you do? Just walk there and back. No, no, just lift the bar without any weights on. Pull the machine without any weights on.

Sameer:

Are you doing like a chest press on a bench? Yeah, wow, okay, a chest press on a bench, yeah.

Michael:

Wow, okay, he's got everything. His gym is insane, wow.

Sameer:

Everything is really cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're saving a pretty penny then going to the gym.

Michael:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I respect it. But is it normal to spend an hour and a half in the gym? No, that's not normal. It depends what kind of.

Sameer:

if you're going to david lloyd, if you're getting a smoothie, if you're going to the sauna I would say in the actual gym, if you're doing like I don't know, 45 minutes to an hour maybe tops the hour and a half is uh it's quite a lot.

Sameer:

I get to the hour mark and I'm like god, please god end this, glenn, end this, the weird thing is, I have no say in this right so I can't say when it ends no, no, of course you can't. Do you think Glenn just wants you there for the extra half an hour, just to, like I don't know, have a chat?

Michael:

and chill out. Well, the funny thing is the first time I went, I think I was only there for 40 minutes and I nearly collapsed. You told me this and then I think I said to him I'm really sorry, Like you've not been able to do anything. You've basically been looking after me, but now we're on rotation, so it's quite good. What do you mean? You're on rotation? No, we do like three stations between three of us.

Sameer:

Oh, okay, a bit like a buffet, the worst type of buffet You're doing like a gym buffet. Yeah, oh, that's good, I'm impressed. Well done. Anyway, enough about me.

Michael:

On what's our topic of this week. Do you know, or should I tell you?

Sameer:

you can say. You can say you don't know shit. This week you shared that the topic is burnouts, burnout, burnout what's that? It's like a club. Yeah, this week you told me, it's burnouts this week.

Michael:

My statistic for us in the pod is that one in three men don't recognise their own burnout symptoms and there's a epidemic at the moment apparently across men, specifically men. This is, yeah, well, not necessarily specifically men, but there's burnouts more prevalent in men than in women it is mad that 33 percent of men are suffering from a burner and don't even know. Yeah, yeah, they don't know. Well, they don't recognize the symptoms of burnout, they just think I'm feeling a bit down, or whatever.

Sameer:

I'm feeling a bit.

Michael:

You know I'm not my usual self and almost 100 of men have said I'm fine before they have a burnout episode. This is tough stuff, how you doing I'm good.

Sameer:

um, I have you ever suffered from burnout? Do you think no? Firstly, what are the symptoms, so that people know?

Michael:

I think that's important. So there's three types of symptoms there's physical, yep, and there's emotional and there's behavioral. Okay, fine, so physical tiredness, nausea, not eating.

Sameer:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michael:

That's why I don't think I've ever suffered burnout, honestly.

Sameer:

But maybe for some people when they're burnt out, they eat more Maybe.

Michael:

So that's the physical. That's the physical that's the physical, mental. You said and behavioral exhaustion um headaches as well. Okay, fine then, um, behavioral is being snappy, snappy demotivated. I've got some more here was, uh, outbursts, right, feeling of isolation? Okay, um, it wasn't meant was emotional by the way emotional emotional and withdrawnness.

Sameer:

That's quite a common one now tell me a lot of people will have some of those.

Michael:

Yeah, right that's just being a dick, though sometimes yeah, if you're just being snappy all the time then, mate, just calm down Scottish to all our Scottish listeners out there, of which there are zero.

Sameer:

There are zero. We check the stats there are zero.

Michael:

There are zero. We check the stats. There are zero. We do check the stats, big up to the the Derby Massive. If you're in Derby listening to us, we see you, we've seen the stats, you're listening how many people?

Sameer:

one person? I don't know, but I like Derby big. Up to the Germans, anyone out there, big up the Germans, big up the.

Michael:

Germans if you're in Berlin Dank, is there some in India? Mumbai Shukria, oh nice.

Sameer:

Oh, I forgot another one. I forgot another country that I can say the I'll do the numbers next time.

Michael:

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, that'll be good.

Sameer:

So anyway, back to burnouts. I'm burnout on the numbers, Back to our topic. A lot of people will suffer some of those symptoms?

Michael:

Yeah, yeah, definitely. So what you're saying is, if you suffer a few of them, that just could be independent. It's when you have the majority of those you might be suffering from burnout.

Sameer:

Yeah and I think, I think, I think the thing is you.

Michael:

You could probably be suffering burnout, yeah, but then it's the tita into complete burnout episode. Is tita a word? Tita, of course it is okay, it sounds, it sounds almost mexican. No, that's titos oh yeah, sorry.

Sameer:

Um, fine, so you okay, so you can have a bunch of those and a collection of those make you feel burnout. So my question is have you ever felt like you've burnt out?

Michael:

I I feel like I've been burning out recently or over a period of time I think in the last few months yeah, definitely, when my wife started working again it was very difficult. Yeah, we were trying to find that balance of work life kids.

Sameer:

Like everyone, like everyone.

Michael:

Yeah, but it was difficult because my wife hadn't been working five days a week for a long time.

Sameer:

Yeah.

Michael:

And then all of a sudden, when one person does that, you're like whoa, this is a big dynamic shift.

Sameer:

For sure. So you think that change with your wife and working just put maybe was it more pressure on you.

Michael:

Do you think, was it time?

Sameer:

Was it just not space for yourself? What was it?

Michael:

What's interesting is there's a big difference between stress and burnout.

Sameer:

Okay, that's interesting, so I was reading up about this.

Michael:

Shout out to mentalhealth-ukorg. Okay, yeah, they do a lot of work on this, especially for men and for burnout. Okay, fine, and the thing is, stress is common and it's short term and it affects everyone. Fine, burnout is long term and it's basically when you're under extreme amounts of pressure, yeah, and you've exhausted all your energy okay, fine.

Sameer:

So burnout probably just takes you down to zero a bit more than maybe stress us in terms of your energy levels and in terms of like, if you have a tank full of energy in the day. Burnout is really getting you down to the bottom of that, whereas stress might be quite high, but you can get over it.

Michael:

I don't know I'm not really sure because I can't I'm not an expert. Not really sure because I can't, I'm not an expert. Okay, from what I, from what I understand, I think it's more like stress is slow and steady, hits you, then you sleep or you don't sleep you go that you recover. Stress is recover.

Sameer:

You can recover from stress stress is probably quite normal for us, as homo sapiens fine whereas burnout lines coming lines coming.

Michael:

I'm stressed. I'm stressed. Run away, let me get away from it.

Sameer:

Tax man's coming, I'm stressed let me run away. Yeah, yeah, I like it, I like it, whereas burnout is kind of the taxman's been chasing me for a year and it's stressing me out and I can't get away from him or her, so I'm burnt out yeah, okay, or the, or the lion is now in the room.

Michael:

I can't escape this lion. Yeah, and I'm every day the lines, do you?

Sameer:

think burnout is a what did you say debt? Do you think burnout is a common thing now, or do you think people still suffered from it, like I don't know, in our parents generation?

Michael:

I think it's probably quite common. I think it's more prevalent now and in fact us age between 35 and 45 is the most. Apparently, 96% of men suffer from burnout between the mid 30s what have you done this week is all you've been doing.

Sameer:

You've become like a proper like nerd with the data.

Michael:

I do it for the people listening to Bob, because our key demographic.

Sameer:

Our key demographic are ideally men. Yeah, well, it doesn't have to be men but that's what you prefer, I prefer men you know, I'm going to clip that, I'm going to clip that and that's the only thing going out this week. I prefer men best men.

Michael:

So yeah, I mean it's. It's relevant to our audience, right? Yes, what's not relevant is do you want to drink a milkshake every week? Me talking about milk yeah, yeah, true there's only a small demographic shout out to my brother. He probably likes to hear that, but there's not a lot of people who would relate to well, kelis kelis if she's listening.

Sameer:

Yeah and she hears you talking about milkshakes, she's gonna go absolutely yeah, but kelis is not listening. Three, three problems. We don't know she could be in derby.

Michael:

She could be our one listener in Derby and Sunderland. Shout out to our Sunderland fans. I saw that. Khaleesi and Sunderland, yeah, but Khaleesi from Game of Thrones, you've seen that you know what?

Sameer:

I haven't watched it. You've not watched Game of Thrones. I've not watched Game of Thrones, to the dismay of now all of our.

Michael:

But you know, if you didn't suffer from burnout, maybe you'd be watching Game of Thrones.

Sameer:

Well, yeah, true actually.

Michael:

I think the reason I it's true, like a lot of people Listening to this they're doing something To avoid burnout.

Sameer:

Yes, good point. So we are actively promoting you to Think about your burnout. Don't burn out, and listen to us. Yeah, I, I like it.

Michael:

We should be called the uh, best men. Burnout, burnt out by the best men, oh yes, I like it. Or when I go to the gym, I burn out and a man burns me out I like that you've got to be so careful with what you're saying, because I'm in charge, in case no one knows, which they wouldn't.

Sameer:

I'm in charge of editing this right. It's you and me as co-hosts, me as producer, me as executive producer, me as editor, me as social media guru.

Michael:

Yeah, you're giving us a lot of titles there Now tell me the other titles for you, creative executive.

Sameer:

I love this Researcher. I'm chief researcher. Actually, you're our data nerd.

Michael:

Chief researcher, scientific insight specialist, that is absolute.

Sameer:

I'm calling you out on that. What is scientific about?

Michael:

your analysis. Creative designer, what have you designed? I get designed creatively for you, do you not?

Sameer:

Okay, fine, fine, I take it back is equal, all right, but if if I'm editing this, I will edit this episode so that all that comes out is I love men burning me out. That's all that's gonna come out this sounds like bullying?

Michael:

no, it's not. Please dm me if you think Sameer is bullying me in this episode. I can't wait for someone to say yes, you know what Sameer's a dick. Yes.

Sameer:

And also just so we're clear, you'd have to DM the Best Men podcast. I would then delete that message before you saw it. All right, fine, so it is. I think I agree with you, though, because, talking from a personal perspective, I definitely feel over the last maybe and it's been a few years, but I would say at least over the last couple of years I feel burnt out. I feel all of the symptoms that you've said I can resonate with. I can resonate with being a bit snappy, which I hate, by the way. It's the one thing about being burnt out that I hate the most is when I feel guilty after I've just been a bit of a dick to someone who's trying to help me, or maybe it's been you. You've called me and I have, I don't know. I've been unkind and I don't like that version of me.

Michael:

Yeah, that's not being burnt out, though being unkind that. No yeah true, that's just me being a dick.

Sameer:

That's just you being a dick, but of all the symptoms, though that's the one where another person maybe feels the brunt of how I'm feeling. I don't enjoy that Most common cause of burnout. I don't know, actually, what is the most common cause of burnout.

Michael:

High expectations or unreasonable pressure Okay, most common source to cause burnout.

Sameer:

No idea, work Okay, fine, that would make actually a lot of sense. So the worst of those then is if you're working really hard and you're also putting a bunch of added pressure on yourself.

Michael:

Yes, or you have, like a manager really horrible manager has put pressure on you, yeah, fine, have you ever had that, have you?

Sameer:

ever had that we can anonymize this so that, in case it's someone that you still know. I definitely have yeah what's the worst experience you've had being line managed? Yeah, in terms of it negatively impacting you, in terms of maybe stress or burnout or something- I've never had burnout from a line manager.

Michael:

Okay, just put that out there, which means probably I haven't had that many bad managers. That's good. Worst situation was when someone asked me to do something and they said the deadline's tonight and then they went home. No way. Yeah, and I had no idea how to do what they were asking me to do, so this was presumably when you were more junior. Yeah, yeah, I was starting in the industry, wow yeah, that was.

Michael:

That was in my industry that I'm working in now and advertising slash educate medical information prior to that in banking I thought you're gonna say Bangladesh for a minute I got told to do something for a customer and I had no training, I had no idea what to do. Um jeez, I then got told go and phone the customer up, go and fix it. And with no support, what did you do?

Sameer:

I don't know this story um why, would I, because I don't ask you about.

Michael:

We don't really talk about stuff like that, but well to be honest with you, it's just really poor management, really really poor management.

Sameer:

Anything to do, what I've learned is retail yeah it's the most awful place to work I reckon the incidence of burnout must be really high.

Michael:

Oh yeah, in retail yeah, and not only that, um poor training, very uh very aggressive, nepotistic environments where you've got like families working together having it out with other people, yeah um, lots of cliques going on. Yeah, really horrible places to be also I.

Sameer:

I reckon the worst thing about retail is having to deal with the public with the public. It's got to be that, no, but if you're in a supermarket um, or if you're buying something like how arty can people be?

Michael:

you've worked in retail when the was it the heart, british Heart Foundation, yeah, shout out to the British Heart Foundation.

Sameer:

That was actually a good working environment, yeah it was fine volunteering yeah it's volunteering, it's charity, like no one. No one is coming into the British Heart Foundation being a dick. There's no one that does that because it's like a charity shop, like noble cause, whereas if you're in Tesco's I'm sure you get a budget.

Michael:

It's a reality. If we loop this back to the topic, yeah, there will probably have been people that were I thought were being just a twat yeah they were probably suffering their own version of burnout. Very true, they want their money. They want to make sure they get paid on time. They want to make sure they can pay the sky.

Sameer:

So it's like a trickle-down. It's like they feel this pressure and stress what's give it to someone else? And they've got a. Yeah, they've exactly that.

Michael:

That's where the are. If you're really good in retail, that's where the art like Alan sugar.

Sameer:

Donald Trump? Who's Donald Trump? Does he own Chupa? Chups?

Michael:

He's getting retail. What retail has he done, donald Trump the Apprentice?

Sameer:

You're hired. No, theo Pavitis. He works in retail, doesn't he? Doesn't he peacocks or whatever it is? I'm not sure about that.

Michael:

I don't really deal with other Greeks. Who's your favourite Greek? That's a good question. Thanks, I know, it just suddenly popped into my mind we were talking about Greeks.

Sameer:

Who's your favourite Greek? I have a favourite Indian, my favourite Greek would be.

Michael:

What's his name?

Sameer:

oh, he must be really high up in your list, if you don't even remember his name, is the guy Aristotle.

Michael:

No, oh, pythagoras, I quite like. No, I like.

Sameer:

Zeus. Oh my God, you're going to pick someone that doesn't exist, don't know if Zeus existed. Do you believe in Zeus? I don't know. I've never asked you this question.

Michael:

Do I believe in Zeus? Do you believe in Zeus?

Sameer:

You're number one, greek Number one.

Michael:

Greek Number one Greek, it's Zeus. It's mythical though, isn't it? Well, you picked him. It's a story. I like the story of Zeus.

Sameer:

I love. The story of Zeus Hercules is up there as well, hercules.

Michael:

Hercules, you know, zeus was a filthy bastard. Just put it out there. You know that. Why zeus?

Sameer:

I don't know anything about you often going and having it off with mortals, right, he had something like was it consensual, was it consensual?

Michael:

stepchildren.

Michael:

Was it consensual, of course it was so what he's a bit like um lewis, hamilton, all right, fine zeus is your number one greek yeah, no, I don't know, I don't know, I come on, you're great, you must have a favourite Greek that you look at ideally someone that actually exists. I've already given Pythagoras? No, I don't know. I don't want to answer this question. This is not what this pod's about. This pod is about burnout, and the Greeks have got nothing to do with burnout. Well, she's burnt loads of people out with this thunderbolt.

Sameer:

Boom, there we go. Linked it back to the episode. Thank you very much. Um, right, anyway, back to my favorite indian is gandhi. Back to the episode at hand. Right, didn't?

Michael:

gandhi ever suffered from burnout. How do you think he lost his hair? I think he lost his weight. I think he lost his clothes. Bloody hell. He fasted a lot.

Sameer:

I enjoy fasting. That's a good thing. You look a bit like gandhi. You say this every time, on every episode.

Michael:

I have to say, as you get older, you're starting to look more like Gandhi. What makes me look more like him?

Sameer:

The face, why you point?

Michael:

at I your glasses. Gandhi had glasses like you. What from Qubits?

Sameer:

Qubits of Konya. Right? Can I just say we do this all the time and I love it. We've gone off on such a tangent. We started with burnout, we've gone to Zeus, now we've gone to Gandhi, now we've gone to a wonderful eyewear store in London called Qubits. Shout out to our sponsors for this week, qubits. No, but what we were talking about is worst experiences at work, right?

Sameer:

Yeah, and you said to me just then I cannot believe you were asked to to turn around a client piece of work in one night that you had nothing, no idea about oh yeah, now I had to submit it on an online portal with no idea of what to do, and I've never done it before.

Michael:

And then it was like how did you manage that? Did you manage it?

Sameer:

or did you just like?

Michael:

I really stress yourself out? Do you want the truth or do you want the?

Sameer:

the truth. Obviously I don't want you to lie to me. The truth is. I completely fucked it up and sent it anyway really yep, so you just thought you put me in this impossible situation. If it goes to the client, I'm too junior to get the blame. You will boom it's off, probably yeah.

Michael:

I didn't think it through like that that was that't logical thinking. I thought it through. As it's seven o'clock, I can't be fucked, I'm going home.

Sameer:

When did they tell you about it?

Michael:

Like a little bit before seven or no. They told me about it at five o'clock oh geez man. She's like I'm going home at five. This needs to go out today. Get it done.

Sameer:

Well, look, that would be in my view if that was repeated over the course of I don't know a few months. 100% that would lead to anyone burning out.

Michael:

But there are a lot of people like that in this world. So what can you do to avoid burnout? You're quite good at this. Yeah, okay, fine, that's not a good thing to say, because that means I've suffered from burnout. You're quite good at burnout.

Sameer:

What do you need to get around? Yeah, uh, well, look, I think it's uh personal to anyone out there that's suffering from burnout. Firstly, whatever helps, what's helped me is I take a bit of time in the mornings, even if it's like to pray. To pray, yeah uh, 10, 15, 20 minutes, um, and I, you know this, I do my 3m, so I do a bit of mindfulness, I write in a journal, so I do a bit of mindset stuff and then I do a bit.

Michael:

I don't understand this, this, this. Oh, I'm not in the camera. I don't even understand what is this, this, this, mmm, right um martial arts.

Sameer:

No, it's mma um the whole.

Michael:

What are you most uh, what's most important thing to do today? Yeah, I don't get that like when I'm walking to school with me like I'm like what's the most important thing to do today? Yeah, I don't get that like when I'm walking to school with me like I'm like what's the most important thing to do. I'm like I don't know, yeah, I can't think of what the most important thing I have to do all my shit today.

Sameer:

Yeah, yeah, yeah I, I don't know, I think for me. So firstly, just to recap, mm is something that dr rang in. Strategy is written about doctor in the uk. He has written about Doctor in the UK. He's written about like sort of just better habits for your mental health. And the three M's are movement mindfulness and magic.

Michael:

Yes.

Sameer:

The third one is sponsored by Derren Brown Mindfulness and mindset, mindset. So the mindset bit is when you're writing in a journal. You ask yourself three questions and those three questions are one what am I grateful for? Yeah, and you know again, personal to you could be your health, could be your family yeah, what's the most important thing you've got to do today?

Sameer:

what? The second thing what is the most important thing you've got to do today? And then the third thing is what qualities do I want to showcase to the world? Now you say that second question is the hardest for you.

Michael:

Yeah, why I don't understand what's the most important thing I've got to do today, but that's more a problem with you than it is with the question yeah, it is a problem with me, it's a problem with Clip. I think what you said to me the other day was it's positioning. So it's less what's the most important thing for you to do today and what's the most enjoyable thing you want to do today.

Sameer:

Yeah, exactly that's different. And the thing is is, I think, immediately, if someone was to listen to this and think, okay, what's the most important thing I have to do today, immediately, somebody would say, okay, so it's a work thing.

Michael:

Okay, so immediately I would say listen to Best man Podcast. Somebody would say okay, so it's a work thing. Okay, so immediately I would say listen to best man podcast. Yeah, well, there you go, there you go, and that would help with your burnout.

Sameer:

Um, but I wouldn't say that.

Michael:

I would say it's kind of being present or what would you say well, what was your mm, what was your m today?

Sameer:

m today um. Today was um have a good chat with you really yeah that was what was most important. Most important thing to do for me today was to just be present. Do this, not think about anything else, carve out a bit of time and have an enjoyable conversation with you.

Michael:

Good to know you won't be doing that.

Sameer:

Yeah, exactly, good to know you failed the whole day. I'm glad I failed one of my amps.

Michael:

I think what's interesting is we talk about the pod and why we do this and why we hope you listen to the pod. Yeah, um, one of the things about this, this epidemic of burnouts that everybody just goes. I'm fine, you know how are you today?

Sameer:

I'm fine, I'm fine, and actually inside they're like crushed yeah yeah, crush them like a little peanut um that was such a good audio, I will crush them like a little peanut. That was good.

Michael:

And I think the sad thing is that they're one step away from going. I just don't want to wake up. But the point of avoiding it and recognizing those symptoms is to say do you know what? I'm actually having a bit of a fluff moment where I need to do something different, and then it's a case of listen to the podcast. Do something for yourself. Do a podcast, write a book write a journal because the whole point is to avoid burnout.

Michael:

I don't know if you can ever avoid burnout If the pressure's there and you're accepting that pressure or you're submitting to that pressure. You've got to then say, right, the pressure's there, but I'm actually going to do something about it. Yeah, and that's where it comes down to what this?

Sameer:

you know, ranganathan saying what romesh is saying that well-known doctor.

Sameer:

You've got to do movement, yeah exercise is very important, yeah, excellent, definitely some kind of movement. People shouldn't be sort of hung up on oh I've got to go to the gym for 45 minutes to feel better. Like, literally, it can be just five minutes of moving your body in the morning and that the whole idea about the beginning, beginning of the day is momentum. You want to wake up having got some early wins, and if you can wake up and the first half an hour of your day is all early wins, things that you committed to doing and you do them.

Michael:

It's energy. It's an energy that you take into my piss off almost 100% of people at work, because the energy I give them at work really. I wake, I'll give them big energy big, big it.

Sameer:

So tell me you're not like your previous line manager, though, are you? Are you leaving people with loads of energy at 5 pm to finish off?

Michael:

at no, no, no, no, I'm, we have. We have a meeting at 10 o'clock and every monday, and I bring the energy.

Sameer:

Really, I love it. Tell me if I'm your colleague oh god, I'll do this. If I'm your colleague and it's 10 am and I've just walked in, let's go meeting starting now. Oh, michael's just walked in. Hey man, how's it going?

Michael:

how you doing. No, no, no, it's all. This is face. When do you lots have a face-to-face meeting?

Sameer:

this is team scores, man okay, fine, hey, uh, I've dialed in. Okay, oh, mike, mike's on, mike's on. Hey man, how are you?

Michael:

I'm just like yeah, good, yeah, big energy big energy I give them the energy I talk about. I go off topic. I talk about things that might uh interest them, I might inspire them sometimes I might be an innuendo back to then A bit like Tony Robbins, More like Tony Blair. So things you can do to combat those symptoms or those signs of burnout the movement is important.

Michael:

Yeah, but those three M's in the morning are good. What I find is very difficult is, in the modern world there's just so much to do. Like you've got your relationship, you've got your mortgage, you've got your dependents. Like you've got your relationship, you've got your mortgage, you've got your dependence, you've got your family yeah, your friends, you've got your work, you've got your house.

Michael:

You've got your shopping. You've got your. You're supposed to cook well. You're supposed to have nutritious food. You're supposed to do exercise. You might have a garden you need to attend to yeah, if you're 90, but go on anyway. I have a garden, hate it.

Sameer:

I know, but you tend to it quite well, I don't at all.

Michael:

My mother-in-law tends to it. Jesus, it's the one thing we agree on.

Sameer:

She can do things in the garden. Have you got anything in the garden at the moment?

Michael:

I've got trees and things, oh good.

Sameer:

Oh really, really, You've got trees.

Michael:

Have you got grass? Okay, it's mad, isn't it? Grass and trees, grass and trees well, but my point is, people would say well, you're stupid, you should go and enjoy your garden. You should go and garden in your garden.

Sameer:

This is how you relax yeah, yeah, but you don't find it relaxing. I don't want to be in the garden I don't want to be touching mud and slugs and weeds and shite and I don't want that stuff. Yeah, dirty, yeah, dirty, fine. So gardening for you isn't isn't good for your mental health. It's not weeds and shite, and I don't want that stuff. Yeah.

Michael:

Dirty yeah.

Sameer:

Dirty Fine. So gardening for you isn't?

Michael:

isn't good for your mental health. It's not. Gardening is a stress.

Sameer:

It stresses me out so I have my things.

Michael:

It's like golf, no, golf is golf, stresses you out. We used to play golf together, most stressful time in my life you now.

Sameer:

Golf definitely, definitely is one of those things that I would recommend to people to go out and just play a bit golf. It's good, it's good for your mental health. Go for a walk. You're out for three or four hours, often with mates, that's the main thing, often with mates. If you go golfing on your own, it's not as good you love golfing on your own.

Michael:

It's not as good, though it isn't you're right. Um, I think I think the person, the thing I think I I suffer with from golf is that my ability is so much worse than yours, but it's not about ability, so let me finish. So you hit beautifully that drive and it goes over the lake onto the green yeah and I'm there and I don't know what I'm doing and I'm getting more stress in the water, in the water, in the water, in the water, in the water that's a great song though it's a good beat.

Michael:

Yeah, now the good friend would say michael, why don't you take a gimme, take it past the water, because you know obviously suffering mentally that the water's there, even though it's a tiny pond. But you just want to watch me hit ball after ball after ball after ball in the water and you don't say Michael, I know it's hard on you, why don't you take it from there? But you just go, ball after ball after ball.

Sameer:

I do but you get so stressed out You're like no, I want to take it from here. I have said to you before when we played take it over the water. This is the ninth ball, take it over the water.

Sameer:

And you are persistent until you smash it over the ball into some bloody rough somewhere, which is even a harder shot but tell me this the joy that you get after the 15th ball, when you knock it over the water and it gets close to the green. Tell me what equates to that If I had simply said to you oh mate, why don't you just tap it in, put it on the green and tap it in, wouldn't?

Michael:

be as good for you, would it? So I don't think there is any joy in that. I don't think you understand how I feel about this ball situation, but it's okay. It's how you like to deal with burnout. You manage the symptoms by going to golf. So look, anyway, that's pretty much it for this week. That's all we've got time for anything else to add about ways that you help to manage burnout.

Sameer:

Sam and Jude, I think listen, just time for yourself. Whatever that is, whatever that looks like, even if it's you know five minutes a day that you just go to the toilet like I do, my wife would say it's 35 minutes golf with your best friend going for a little walk. You've always told me look, when things are getting hard for you, just get outside, go for a walk for five or ten minutes.

Michael:

That's not what I've told you. Yes, you have. It's made it worse. It's made it worse. Is it eat crisps or go for a drive and buy crisps?

Sameer:

You have said that as well, yeah, but basically take a few minutes out for yourself in the day, because I think yeah really helpful.

Michael:

Um, that's all we've got time for this week. Thank you so much for listening. Um, thank you again for listening. Tuning in to us for season two. Um, remember, you can dm us. You can dm us on social media, on different social platforms. Don't forget to follow us, like, subscribe, um, and all the good stuff. And yeah, just if you get a moment, try and take a try to take a bit out your day and remember, when life gets you down, be the best.